攝影師拍照手機筆記: iPhone 12 Pro Max - 手機討論

By Ophelia
at 2020-12-03T13:57
at 2020-12-03T13:57
Table of Contents
很久沒有來版上看一下,難得看到高手來分享
結果下面一堆似是而非的理解跟推文
eyecolor滿口計算攝影,但不知道是文字不精確,還是沒修過圖
首先,正常有動過raw檔的人都知道
沒有raw怎麼修圖都不會影響畫質這件事情
從文字上來看,他似乎連hdr raw這種多年前就存在於photoshop的功能都不了解
hdr跟你用raw image還是用jpg哪有什麼關聯
以前eyecolor曾經在他版嗆他不修圖 修圖是技術差的人在做的事情
不知道這幾年這方面有沒有什麼進步
也沒什麼遠超過感光元件的能力這件事情
說白的就是多張合成,包含深度資訊
本質上這些資料都依然是從cmos sensor上面抓下來的
然後我再跟其他版友閒聊的時候 洗了整篇推文的eyecolor突然認為我問了他問題
這裡真的是莫名其妙
eyecolor把realtime顯示的畫面直接當作是拍攝結果
基本上稍微有概念的人都知道preview stream跟capture stream很可能不是同一條
再者,景深的資訊也不一定百分之百是用lidar的資料
也可能用其他顆鏡頭帶來的深度資料
我之所以不說死,是因為我們沒有辦法知道底層怎麼實做這些事情
所以說得比較保守
結果居然讓eyecolor認為我在問他問題 這認知也是奇葩
所以我好心告訴他一點觀念
這裡我實在不理解,eyecolor到底哪來的自信
上面那些資料,除了最後兩篇教學怎麼用ios的API以外
其他資料,都是屬於high level到不行,一個理工大學生看個10分鐘也能懂得程度
基本上裡面都沒有提到所有技術細節如何實作
講真的我也是不期待eyecolor能拿出什麼業界有在用的深度資料出來
但是拿這些出來 看看網路文章就說自己懂計算攝影也太好笑了
雖然我是預期你不懂 但是
如果你懂系統,你可以說說iphone底層ISP的block diagram怎麼畫
或是至少iphone怎麼整合多個不同subsystem的資料在一起
如果你懂ios app,你可以分享一下怎麼用API怎麼實作
你貼的API討論的是2017年的iphone 7怎麼用雙鏡頭去拿景深資料
還有講一些座標轉換,以及鏡頭變形怎麼校正
該文跟LiDar關係就是,沒有關係
還順便告訴你iphone是可以透過多鏡頭拿到景深資料的,跟我說的一樣
當然
也跟Google是用machine learning的方式還是深度資料來做景深處理,沒有關係
所以我好心提醒你,看過high level的技術文件,或是source code再來討論
結果你貼這些東西出來,我真的很失望
===========
最後
雖然跟哪個版的版主這樣的身分無關
但我很抱歉對你推文失了禮貌
對你的時候,這對我來說真的有難度
--
結果下面一堆似是而非的理解跟推文
推 eyecolor : 你誤會了12/03 01:28
→ eyecolor : 我簡單舉例來說..單獨拿一個HDR來說12/03 01:28
→ eyecolor : HDR不就是高動態嗎? 假設今天原本感光元件能力12/03 01:29
→ eyecolor : 是 -3EV到+3EV..這是原始RAW的記錄範圍 (假設)12/03 01:29
→ eyecolor : 但計算攝影.假設算出一張-10EV到12EV的HDR照片12/03 01:30
→ eyecolor : 那麼原始RAW再怎麼修圖就是拉出-3EV到+3EV12/03 01:31
→ eyecolor : 再怎麼拉也拉不出計算攝影的動態12/03 01:31
→ eyecolor : 好..可是RAW怎麼修圖都不會影響畫質12/03 01:32
→ eyecolor : 那麼在過去我們對計算攝影的照片修圖12/03 01:32
→ eyecolor : 修圖完後這是會影響畫質的..12/03 01:32
→ eyecolor : 但是又很喜歡計算攝影的高動態.又想修圖怎麼辦?12/03 01:32
→ eyecolor : ProRAW就是提供這件事情.他提供一張-10EV到12EV12/03 01:33
→ eyecolor : 的RAW檔給你..隨便你修圖都不會影響畫質12/03 01:33
eyecolor滿口計算攝影,但不知道是文字不精確,還是沒修過圖
首先,正常有動過raw檔的人都知道
沒有raw怎麼修圖都不會影響畫質這件事情
從文字上來看,他似乎連hdr raw這種多年前就存在於photoshop的功能都不了解
hdr跟你用raw image還是用jpg哪有什麼關聯
以前eyecolor曾經在他版嗆他不修圖 修圖是技術差的人在做的事情
不知道這幾年這方面有沒有什麼進步
→ eyecolor : 這遠遠超出感光元件能力的RAW檔就是ProRAW12/03 01:34
→ eyecolor : 這樣可以簡單理解了嗎?12/03 01:34
也沒什麼遠超過感光元件的能力這件事情
說白的就是多張合成,包含深度資訊
本質上這些資料都依然是從cmos sensor上面抓下來的
然後我再跟其他版友閒聊的時候 洗了整篇推文的eyecolor突然認為我問了他問題
推 kblover : proRaw一定有用到景深的資訊 雖然不知道他深度資訊12/03 11:33
→ kblover : 是不是真的從LiDar抓的 但是他proRaw可以調整景深12/03 11:33
→ eyecolor : 我說明一下12 pro max拍攝狀況12/03 11:34
→ eyecolor : 我還沒更新到測試版.手機資料太重要我等正式版再說12/03 11:35
→ eyecolor : 所見即所得在人像模式會用軟體模擬一下景深預覽12/03 11:35
→ eyecolor : 這時候看吸管或杯緣都是被模糊掉的 12/03 11:35
→ kblover : eyecolor你可以自己開一篇嗎 看你洗很妨礙閱讀12/03 11:35
→ eyecolor : 但等拍好照後點進去照片.會在1-2秒內套用光達資訊12/03 11:36
→ eyecolor : 畫面的吸管會漸漸地變得清晰12/03 11:36
→ eyecolor : 很抱歉我懶得回文12/03 11:36
→ eyecolor : 不喜歡我的推文把我黑了.你軟體有這功能12/03 11:36
→ eyecolor : 所以ProRAW的景深資訊就是含有光達資料12/03 11:37
→ eyecolor : 只是應該不是原始資料.而是套用過後的資料12/03 11:37
→ eyecolor : 然後我是在回你問題.Kblover大.你嘛幫幫忙12/03 11:38
→ eyecolor : 回你問題還在嫌我洗妨礙閱讀12/03 11:38
推 kblover : 我沒有問問題啊 = =12/03 11:45
→ kblover : pcman並沒有黑名單12/03 11:45
推 eyecolor : 你自己看看上面你問的問題吧.深度資訊不是不從光達12/03 11:47
→ eyecolor : 我回完了12/03 11:47
這裡真的是莫名其妙
eyecolor把realtime顯示的畫面直接當作是拍攝結果
基本上稍微有概念的人都知道preview stream跟capture stream很可能不是同一條
再者,景深的資訊也不一定百分之百是用lidar的資料
也可能用其他顆鏡頭帶來的深度資料
我之所以不說死,是因為我們沒有辦法知道底層怎麼實做這些事情
所以說得比較保守
結果居然讓eyecolor認為我在問他問題 這認知也是奇葩
所以我好心告訴他一點觀念
→ kblover : ...preview stream跟實際capture stream不一定是同12/03 11:49
→ kblover : 一條路 你連這個都不知道 憑我的程度 我應該沒有12/03 11:50
→ kblover : 問題需要問你 請不要自我感覺良好 謝謝12/03 11:50
→ kblover : @xoy 其實重點就是深度資訊是從哪裡抓的12/03 11:51
→ eyecolor : DSLR版主我覺得您繼續在傳統攝影裡面可能比較好12/03 11:52
推 kblover : 希望你可以看過src code或是理解技術後再來討論12/03 11:58
這裡我實在不理解,eyecolor到底哪來的自信
推 eyecolor : 我希望您的問題可以更接近計算攝影而不是用傳統攝影12/03 11:59
→ eyecolor : 去看完谷歌說明的計算景深後再來問這個問題12/03 12:00
推 eyecolor : 直接嗆人也不是太禮貌.這個版也不是你管的 12/03 12:02
→ eyecolor : 上面那個影片有實際使用ProRAW情形.雖然很粗淺12/03 12:14
推 eyecolor : 蘋果真正技術方面不太會說原理.他不需要用戶了解12/03 12:16
→ eyecolor : 但谷歌那邊的說明文章會比較清楚一點12/03 12:16
→ eyecolor : 不靠光達光是本身機械學習部分.就算雙鏡頭也輸給12/03 12:17
→ eyecolor : Pixel的景深邊緣計算...12/03 12:18
推 eyecolor : 關於iPhone11過去的人像景深資訊12/03 12:27
→ eyecolor : 上面那個網址有深度分析12/03 12:27
推 eyecolor : 如果要理解.也可以補看上篇12/03 12:30
推 eyecolor : 上面二篇文章加上google的說明.補上光達資訊12/03 12:39
→ eyecolor : 整個資料就完整了.這樣DSLR版主可以了解了嗎12/03 12:40
上面那些資料,除了最後兩篇教學怎麼用ios的API以外
其他資料,都是屬於high level到不行,一個理工大學生看個10分鐘也能懂得程度
基本上裡面都沒有提到所有技術細節如何實作
講真的我也是不期待eyecolor能拿出什麼業界有在用的深度資料出來
但是拿這些出來 看看網路文章就說自己懂計算攝影也太好笑了
雖然我是預期你不懂 但是
如果你懂系統,你可以說說iphone底層ISP的block diagram怎麼畫
或是至少iphone怎麼整合多個不同subsystem的資料在一起
如果你懂ios app,你可以分享一下怎麼用API怎麼實作
你貼的API討論的是2017年的iphone 7怎麼用雙鏡頭去拿景深資料
還有講一些座標轉換,以及鏡頭變形怎麼校正
該文跟LiDar關係就是,沒有關係
還順便告訴你iphone是可以透過多鏡頭拿到景深資料的,跟我說的一樣
當然
也跟Google是用machine learning的方式還是深度資料來做景深處理,沒有關係
所以我好心提醒你,看過high level的技術文件,或是source code再來討論
結果你貼這些東西出來,我真的很失望
===========
最後
雖然跟哪個版的版主這樣的身分無關
但我很抱歉對你推文失了禮貌
對你的時候,這對我來說真的有難度
--
Tags:
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By Poppy
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By Daph Bay
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By William
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By Ina
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By George
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By Emma
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By Tom
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By Mary
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By Joseph
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By Elma
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By Ida
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By Ethan
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By Doris
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By Kama
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By Margaret
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By Ethan
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By Ursula
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By Rosalind
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By Kelly
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By Una
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By Joe
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By Connor
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By Bethany
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By Carol
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By Kumar
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By Selena
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By Barb Cronin
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By Andrew
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By Callum
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By George
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By Wallis
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By Sierra Rose
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By Eden
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By Mary
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By Eden
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By Leila
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By Joe
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By Wallis
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By Zora
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By Edward Lewis
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