往下競標不灑幣~Bitcoin原來的fee market - 數位貨幣
By Annie
at 2019-05-29T03:31
at 2019-05-29T03:31
Table of Contents
Blockstream Core重新定義了許多Bitcoin原來的理念定義。
其中最常聽到的就是fee market。大家需要去用高手續費去競標來卡1MB的區塊空間。
今天剛好又是champaign的一天,我就來實際示範和實驗最早Bitcoin的fee market長怎樣。
中本聰的fee market絕對是個消費者市場。也就是區塊空間的供給遠超過需求。
這從最原始版本的Bitcoin根本沒有block size limit可以看出來。
白皮書也完全沒有提到這個機制。既沒有blocksize limit更沒有競標區塊空間市場。
再告訴各位一個驚人的事實,比特幣早期是允許發出和轉傳零手續費的交易的。
這是早期的bitcoin.org的網頁,不過早就被Blockstream Core當成黑歷史
https://web.archive.org/web/20140122225824/http://bitcoin.org/en/
Zero or low processing fees
隨便找個早期的bitcoin交易,一大半都是零手續費,譬如以下就是2012年的區塊交易
https://tinyurl.com/y2yfnnsd
所以中本聰的邏輯絕對不是為了搞出生產者市場來強硬生出fee market。
而純粹是一種spam的防止機制。因為早期BTC發出交易可以是"零成本"
沒有區塊大小限制的話,大家可以零成本把區塊鏈洗到好幾TB大都沒問題。
而這當然不是中本聰要的。反正1MB區塊限制已經是當時的區塊平均大小的百倍大了。
但中本聰也並非要永久維持1MB的區塊限制,而且他自己都親自寫虛擬碼出來了
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1347.msg15366#msg15366
It can be phased in, like:
if (blocknumber > 115000)
maxblocksize = largerlimit
在他預期之下,比特幣將來若不是on-chain交易量極端之大,要不就是沒交易量(死亡)。
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=48.msg329#msg329
In a few decades when the reward gets too small, the transaction fee will
become the main compensation for nodes. I'm sure that in 20 years there will
either be very large transaction volume or no volume.
很不幸的是Blockstream Core選擇死亡
前面屁話了這麼多,那麼中本聰的fee market到底是指什麼?
這從Satoshi回給Mike Hearn的信件中可以窺見一二
https://nakamotostudies.org/emails/satoshi-reply-to-mike-hearn/
I don’t anticipate that fees will be needed anytime soon, but if it becomes
too burdensome to run a node, it is possible to run a node that only
processes transactions that include a transaction fee. The owner of the node
would decide the minimum fee they’ll accept. Right now, such a node would
get nothing, because nobody includes a fee, but if enough nodes did that,
then users would get faster acceptance if they include a fee, or slower if
they don’t. The fee the market would settle on should be minimal. If a node
requires a higher fee, that node would be passing up all transactions with
lower fees. It could do more volume and probably make more money by
processing as many paying transactions as it can. The transition is not
controlled by some human in charge of the system though, just individuals
reacting on their own to market forces.
大致說來就是中本聰本來就認為他的系統至少在初期可以免手續費運作,事實也是如此。
就算在成熟期,因為是消費者市場,手續費藉由市場競爭將會是越低越好:
The fee the market would settle on should be minimal.
因為貪婪的礦工會想盡量多收點手續費,在消費者市場的狀態下,唯一方法就是薄利多賺。
礦工提供大區塊,互相流血下殺最低手續費殺成紅海
===這才是真正符合Bitcoin原有精神的fee market==========
現在BTC當然沒這種fee market了,不過BCH卻還有辦法讓我這方面的實驗。
目前BTC和BCH能夠被relay的最低手續費都是 1 sat/byte
BTC只能實驗往上的fee market,那個大家每天都在實踐,就不玩了。
但是BCH的 1 sat/byte也看不出往下的fee market,因為幾乎可保證下一個區塊被確認。
實際上BCH的錢包還可以發出更低的手續費,只是會無法被廣泛的relay。
BCH也還是有礦工會去接受這種低於一般標準值的手續費,反正能夠多收一筆是一筆。
那我們現在就來挑戰極限。發錢順便做測試:
我將會發出兩筆交易給第一位貼出自己BTC地址的版眾:
0.00008 BTC (須扣手續費)
0.001688 BCH
因為目前的BTC next block fee會超過100台幣,比要轉的金額還高好幾倍,這太搞笑了。
就學一下Tone Vays用 1 sat/byte 來轉,手續費大約1.5塊新台幣
BCH的部分一樣用1sat/byte 來轉,手續費大約0.07新台幣
第二位之後可以隨意推文,我直接去PTT CryptoTipper查BCH地址
最後就來挑戰手續費下限:
當我看推文數要達到一百的時候,全部一起發每人0.0000888 BCH
挑戰發給一個人只用1 sat和發給一百個人只用10 sat
最後就可以得知大約要花多久時間多少個區塊會被確認
待測試結果如下:
↓花1.5台幣的交易手續費在BTC網路發錢給一個人,總共花費 363 區塊時間完成
↓https://tinyurl.com/yxqboycv
↓花0.07台幣的交易手續費在BCH網路上發錢給一人,總共花費 1 區塊時間完成
↓https://tinyurl.com/y3ty3zh2
↓花0.00015台幣的交易手續費在BCH網路上發錢給一人,總共花費 160 區塊時間完成
↓https://tinyurl.com/yyfy3x8d
↓花0.0015台幣的交易手續費在BCH網路上發錢給83人,總共花費 160 區塊時間完成
↓(平均每人0.000016台幣)
↓https://tinyurl.com/y4sw3fov
↓手續費往下競標
以下開放大家隨意推文測試領錢,當推文數到達一百或是不再增加時,發出測試交易。
--
Bitcoin: 1GxtyprMfcxE366BDUsg1skQyuAnxktZjc
https://www.blockchain.com/zh/btc/address/1GxtyprMfcxE366BDUsg1skQyuAnxktZjc
Bitcoin Cash: bitcoincash:qp928h4q4xasa5wh2x88xhsxgc4vwj6g95uzq0ak97
https://goo.gl/2qNr43
Ethereum: 0x4A2B1e35eb64141bbad4C58cB7D79692bC5Dbbc2
https://etherscan.io/address/0x4A2B1e35eb64141bbad4C58cB7D79692bC5Dbbc2
--
其中最常聽到的就是fee market。大家需要去用高手續費去競標來卡1MB的區塊空間。
今天剛好又是champaign的一天,我就來實際示範和實驗最早Bitcoin的fee market長怎樣。
中本聰的fee market絕對是個消費者市場。也就是區塊空間的供給遠超過需求。
這從最原始版本的Bitcoin根本沒有block size limit可以看出來。
白皮書也完全沒有提到這個機制。既沒有blocksize limit更沒有競標區塊空間市場。
再告訴各位一個驚人的事實,比特幣早期是允許發出和轉傳零手續費的交易的。
這是早期的bitcoin.org的網頁,不過早就被Blockstream Core當成黑歷史
https://web.archive.org/web/20140122225824/http://bitcoin.org/en/
Zero or low processing fees
隨便找個早期的bitcoin交易,一大半都是零手續費,譬如以下就是2012年的區塊交易
https://tinyurl.com/y2yfnnsd
所以中本聰的邏輯絕對不是為了搞出生產者市場來強硬生出fee market。
而純粹是一種spam的防止機制。因為早期BTC發出交易可以是"零成本"
沒有區塊大小限制的話,大家可以零成本把區塊鏈洗到好幾TB大都沒問題。
而這當然不是中本聰要的。反正1MB區塊限制已經是當時的區塊平均大小的百倍大了。
但中本聰也並非要永久維持1MB的區塊限制,而且他自己都親自寫虛擬碼出來了
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1347.msg15366#msg15366
It can be phased in, like:
if (blocknumber > 115000)
maxblocksize = largerlimit
在他預期之下,比特幣將來若不是on-chain交易量極端之大,要不就是沒交易量(死亡)。
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=48.msg329#msg329
In a few decades when the reward gets too small, the transaction fee will
become the main compensation for nodes. I'm sure that in 20 years there will
either be very large transaction volume or no volume.
很不幸的是Blockstream Core選擇死亡
前面屁話了這麼多,那麼中本聰的fee market到底是指什麼?
這從Satoshi回給Mike Hearn的信件中可以窺見一二
https://nakamotostudies.org/emails/satoshi-reply-to-mike-hearn/
I don’t anticipate that fees will be needed anytime soon, but if it becomes
too burdensome to run a node, it is possible to run a node that only
processes transactions that include a transaction fee. The owner of the node
would decide the minimum fee they’ll accept. Right now, such a node would
get nothing, because nobody includes a fee, but if enough nodes did that,
then users would get faster acceptance if they include a fee, or slower if
they don’t. The fee the market would settle on should be minimal. If a node
requires a higher fee, that node would be passing up all transactions with
lower fees. It could do more volume and probably make more money by
processing as many paying transactions as it can. The transition is not
controlled by some human in charge of the system though, just individuals
reacting on their own to market forces.
大致說來就是中本聰本來就認為他的系統至少在初期可以免手續費運作,事實也是如此。
就算在成熟期,因為是消費者市場,手續費藉由市場競爭將會是越低越好:
The fee the market would settle on should be minimal.
因為貪婪的礦工會想盡量多收點手續費,在消費者市場的狀態下,唯一方法就是薄利多賺。
礦工提供大區塊,互相流血下殺最低手續費殺成紅海
===這才是真正符合Bitcoin原有精神的fee market==========
現在BTC當然沒這種fee market了,不過BCH卻還有辦法讓我這方面的實驗。
目前BTC和BCH能夠被relay的最低手續費都是 1 sat/byte
BTC只能實驗往上的fee market,那個大家每天都在實踐,就不玩了。
但是BCH的 1 sat/byte也看不出往下的fee market,因為幾乎可保證下一個區塊被確認。
實際上BCH的錢包還可以發出更低的手續費,只是會無法被廣泛的relay。
BCH也還是有礦工會去接受這種低於一般標準值的手續費,反正能夠多收一筆是一筆。
那我們現在就來挑戰極限。發錢順便做測試:
我將會發出兩筆交易給第一位貼出自己BTC地址的版眾:
0.00008 BTC (須扣手續費)
0.001688 BCH
因為目前的BTC next block fee會超過100台幣,比要轉的金額還高好幾倍,這太搞笑了。
就學一下Tone Vays用 1 sat/byte 來轉,手續費大約1.5塊新台幣
BCH的部分一樣用1sat/byte 來轉,手續費大約0.07新台幣
第二位之後可以隨意推文,我直接去PTT CryptoTipper查BCH地址
最後就來挑戰手續費下限:
當我看推文數要達到一百的時候,全部一起發每人0.0000888 BCH
挑戰發給一個人只用1 sat和發給一百個人只用10 sat
最後就可以得知大約要花多久時間多少個區塊會被確認
待測試結果如下:
↓花1.5台幣的交易手續費在BTC網路發錢給一個人,總共花費 363 區塊時間完成
↓https://tinyurl.com/yxqboycv
↓花0.07台幣的交易手續費在BCH網路上發錢給一人,總共花費 1 區塊時間完成
↓https://tinyurl.com/y3ty3zh2
↓花0.00015台幣的交易手續費在BCH網路上發錢給一人,總共花費 160 區塊時間完成
↓https://tinyurl.com/yyfy3x8d
↓花0.0015台幣的交易手續費在BCH網路上發錢給83人,總共花費 160 區塊時間完成
↓(平均每人0.000016台幣)
↓https://tinyurl.com/y4sw3fov
↓手續費往下競標
以下開放大家隨意推文測試領錢,當推文數到達一百或是不再增加時,發出測試交易。
--
Bitcoin: 1GxtyprMfcxE366BDUsg1skQyuAnxktZjc
https://www.blockchain.com/zh/btc/address/1GxtyprMfcxE366BDUsg1skQyuAnxktZjc
Bitcoin Cash: bitcoincash:qp928h4q4xasa5wh2x88xhsxgc4vwj6g95uzq0ak97
https://goo.gl/2qNr43
Ethereum: 0x4A2B1e35eb64141bbad4C58cB7D79692bC5Dbbc2
https://etherscan.io/address/0x4A2B1e35eb64141bbad4C58cB7D79692bC5Dbbc2
--
Tags:
數位貨幣
All Comments
By Megan
at 2019-05-29T20:43
at 2019-05-29T20:43
By Enid
at 2019-06-02T00:07
at 2019-06-02T00:07
By Iris
at 2019-06-02T11:28
at 2019-06-02T11:28
By Una
at 2019-06-05T15:11
at 2019-06-05T15:11
By Ingrid
at 2019-06-10T05:05
at 2019-06-10T05:05
By Olivia
at 2019-06-12T04:25
at 2019-06-12T04:25
By Tristan Cohan
at 2019-06-12T18:39
at 2019-06-12T18:39
By Leila
at 2019-06-15T23:20
at 2019-06-15T23:20
By Charlie
at 2019-06-17T07:12
at 2019-06-17T07:12
By Elma
at 2019-06-18T20:28
at 2019-06-18T20:28
By Yuri
at 2019-06-20T23:55
at 2019-06-20T23:55
By John
at 2019-06-24T15:34
at 2019-06-24T15:34
By Joe
at 2019-06-25T04:00
at 2019-06-25T04:00
By Kelly
at 2019-06-28T02:16
at 2019-06-28T02:16
By Zora
at 2019-07-01T03:31
at 2019-07-01T03:31
By Hardy
at 2019-07-05T03:25
at 2019-07-05T03:25
By Caroline
at 2019-07-08T04:10
at 2019-07-08T04:10
By Harry
at 2019-07-09T20:40
at 2019-07-09T20:40
By Anthony
at 2019-07-12T03:45
at 2019-07-12T03:45
By Callum
at 2019-07-12T18:36
at 2019-07-12T18:36
By Freda
at 2019-07-13T15:41
at 2019-07-13T15:41
By Mia
at 2019-07-18T10:13
at 2019-07-18T10:13
By Aaliyah
at 2019-07-19T03:51
at 2019-07-19T03:51
By Oscar
at 2019-07-23T23:05
at 2019-07-23T23:05
By Caroline
at 2019-07-25T11:32
at 2019-07-25T11:32
By Dora
at 2019-07-29T07:05
at 2019-07-29T07:05
By Margaret
at 2019-08-01T15:10
at 2019-08-01T15:10
By Yedda
at 2019-08-03T05:33
at 2019-08-03T05:33
By Iris
at 2019-08-03T17:14
at 2019-08-03T17:14
By Damian
at 2019-08-08T02:06
at 2019-08-08T02:06
By Megan
at 2019-08-08T17:37
at 2019-08-08T17:37
By Rae
at 2019-08-13T06:42
at 2019-08-13T06:42
By Carolina Franco
at 2019-08-16T20:45
at 2019-08-16T20:45
By Rachel
at 2019-08-18T13:34
at 2019-08-18T13:34
By Hamiltion
at 2019-08-20T20:56
at 2019-08-20T20:56
By William
at 2019-08-25T09:45
at 2019-08-25T09:45
By Skylar Davis
at 2019-08-27T22:01
at 2019-08-27T22:01
By Jake
at 2019-08-30T16:00
at 2019-08-30T16:00
By Genevieve
at 2019-09-02T13:23
at 2019-09-02T13:23
By Victoria
at 2019-09-06T21:06
at 2019-09-06T21:06
By Annie
at 2019-09-08T11:08
at 2019-09-08T11:08
By Michael
at 2019-09-12T15:04
at 2019-09-12T15:04
By Regina
at 2019-09-13T13:54
at 2019-09-13T13:54
By William
at 2019-09-13T18:17
at 2019-09-13T18:17
By Blanche
at 2019-09-15T11:20
at 2019-09-15T11:20
By Elma
at 2019-09-19T01:11
at 2019-09-19T01:11
By Kyle
at 2019-09-23T22:38
at 2019-09-23T22:38
By Skylar DavisLinda
at 2019-09-26T10:43
at 2019-09-26T10:43
By Daniel
at 2019-09-29T19:54
at 2019-09-29T19:54
By Tom
at 2019-10-04T07:52
at 2019-10-04T07:52
By Olga
at 2019-10-07T01:45
at 2019-10-07T01:45
By Tracy
at 2019-10-10T09:04
at 2019-10-10T09:04
By Gilbert
at 2019-10-13T20:08
at 2019-10-13T20:08
By Lydia
at 2019-10-16T10:17
at 2019-10-16T10:17
By Heather
at 2019-10-18T03:12
at 2019-10-18T03:12
By Caitlin
at 2019-10-19T10:46
at 2019-10-19T10:46
By David
at 2019-10-20T16:09
at 2019-10-20T16:09
By Odelette
at 2019-10-24T00:35
at 2019-10-24T00:35
By Todd Johnson
at 2019-10-25T09:29
at 2019-10-25T09:29
By Jacob
at 2019-10-29T01:12
at 2019-10-29T01:12
By Lauren
at 2019-10-30T05:05
at 2019-10-30T05:05
By Queena
at 2019-10-31T17:35
at 2019-10-31T17:35
By Bethany
at 2019-11-04T19:16
at 2019-11-04T19:16
By William
at 2019-11-07T23:58
at 2019-11-07T23:58
By Agatha
at 2019-11-11T03:46
at 2019-11-11T03:46
By Zora
at 2019-11-12T11:47
at 2019-11-12T11:47
By Jack
at 2019-11-12T23:52
at 2019-11-12T23:52
By Ingrid
at 2019-11-13T05:39
at 2019-11-13T05:39
By Lily
at 2019-11-17T03:35
at 2019-11-17T03:35
By Todd Johnson
at 2019-11-20T20:45
at 2019-11-20T20:45
By Wallis
at 2019-11-21T18:25
at 2019-11-21T18:25
By Donna
at 2019-11-22T16:38
at 2019-11-22T16:38
By Liam
at 2019-11-27T00:16
at 2019-11-27T00:16
By Carolina Franco
at 2019-11-28T22:07
at 2019-11-28T22:07
By Charlotte
at 2019-11-30T05:06
at 2019-11-30T05:06
By Freda
at 2019-12-02T07:42
at 2019-12-02T07:42
By Edith
at 2019-12-03T08:09
at 2019-12-03T08:09
By Audriana
at 2019-12-04T11:44
at 2019-12-04T11:44
By Freda
at 2019-12-06T03:12
at 2019-12-06T03:12
By Frederica
at 2019-12-07T10:23
at 2019-12-07T10:23
By Carol
at 2019-12-08T01:02
at 2019-12-08T01:02
By Anonymous
at 2019-12-12T06:00
at 2019-12-12T06:00
By Kelly
at 2019-12-16T21:03
at 2019-12-16T21:03
By Mia
at 2019-12-17T04:19
at 2019-12-17T04:19
By John
at 2019-12-20T06:21
at 2019-12-20T06:21
By Harry
at 2019-12-24T18:56
at 2019-12-24T18:56
By Ina
at 2019-12-28T23:21
at 2019-12-28T23:21
By Lauren
at 2019-12-30T04:56
at 2019-12-30T04:56
By Yedda
at 2020-01-02T10:46
at 2020-01-02T10:46
By Robert
at 2020-01-03T14:35
at 2020-01-03T14:35
By Sandy
at 2020-01-04T08:33
at 2020-01-04T08:33
By Mary
at 2020-01-05T13:37
at 2020-01-05T13:37
By Margaret
at 2020-01-09T03:27
at 2020-01-09T03:27
By Jacob
at 2020-01-12T17:19
at 2020-01-12T17:19
By Enid
at 2020-01-15T01:51
at 2020-01-15T01:51
By Kristin
at 2020-01-15T04:15
at 2020-01-15T04:15
By Elizabeth
at 2020-01-15T17:17
at 2020-01-15T17:17
By Ivy
at 2020-01-18T13:09
at 2020-01-18T13:09
By Mary
at 2020-01-21T10:44
at 2020-01-21T10:44
By Margaret
at 2020-01-22T14:37
at 2020-01-22T14:37
By Mary
at 2020-01-23T22:12
at 2020-01-23T22:12
By Vanessa
at 2020-01-26T00:51
at 2020-01-26T00:51
By Hamiltion
at 2020-01-27T02:27
at 2020-01-27T02:27
By Vanessa
at 2020-01-28T07:25
at 2020-01-28T07:25
By Bennie
at 2020-01-30T01:05
at 2020-01-30T01:05
By Dora
at 2020-02-03T01:30
at 2020-02-03T01:30
By Doris
at 2020-02-08T00:38
at 2020-02-08T00:38
By George
at 2020-02-11T22:37
at 2020-02-11T22:37
By Oscar
at 2020-02-16T22:02
at 2020-02-16T22:02
By Selena
at 2020-02-17T09:59
at 2020-02-17T09:59
By Rosalind
at 2020-02-19T07:59
at 2020-02-19T07:59
By Irma
at 2020-02-21T23:55
at 2020-02-21T23:55
By Daniel
at 2020-02-25T17:48
at 2020-02-25T17:48
By Ethan
at 2020-02-27T12:02
at 2020-02-27T12:02
By Anonymous
at 2020-03-01T12:35
at 2020-03-01T12:35
By Joseph
at 2020-03-04T05:32
at 2020-03-04T05:32
By Barb Cronin
at 2020-03-06T23:45
at 2020-03-06T23:45
By Odelette
at 2020-03-08T10:24
at 2020-03-08T10:24
By Quanna
at 2020-03-10T22:16
at 2020-03-10T22:16
By Skylar DavisLinda
at 2020-03-14T07:44
at 2020-03-14T07:44
By Kyle
at 2020-03-16T14:51
at 2020-03-16T14:51
By Caitlin
at 2020-03-17T05:42
at 2020-03-17T05:42
By Joseph
at 2020-03-18T11:43
at 2020-03-18T11:43
By Jake
at 2020-03-20T04:11
at 2020-03-20T04:11
By Megan
at 2020-03-25T03:47
at 2020-03-25T03:47
By Edward Lewis
at 2020-03-25T14:44
at 2020-03-25T14:44
By Connor
at 2020-03-25T19:32
at 2020-03-25T19:32
By Ursula
at 2020-03-28T05:08
at 2020-03-28T05:08
By Kristin
at 2020-03-30T19:48
at 2020-03-30T19:48
By Eden
at 2020-04-03T23:16
at 2020-04-03T23:16
By Noah
at 2020-04-07T11:30
at 2020-04-07T11:30
By Frederic
at 2020-04-08T13:10
at 2020-04-08T13:10
By Andy
at 2020-04-09T18:03
at 2020-04-09T18:03
By Kumar
at 2020-04-10T15:24
at 2020-04-10T15:24
By Rosalind
at 2020-04-13T10:54
at 2020-04-13T10:54
By Donna
at 2020-04-16T09:38
at 2020-04-16T09:38
By Tristan Cohan
at 2020-04-19T03:33
at 2020-04-19T03:33
By Caitlin
at 2020-04-22T00:06
at 2020-04-22T00:06
Related Posts
EOS 的內存 RAM 價格在今天凌晨飆漲 3 倍
By Agatha
at 2019-05-29T00:43
at 2019-05-29T00:43
去中心化的必要性
By Kristin
at 2019-05-28T19:32
at 2019-05-28T19:32
一名印度交易者因比特幣而自殺
By George
at 2019-05-28T15:04
at 2019-05-28T15:04
挖礦大比拼:礦機挖礦vs遊戲挖礦
By Charlie
at 2019-05-28T14:30
at 2019-05-28T14:30
ethos挖礦掉算力問題
By Faithe
at 2019-05-28T11:58
at 2019-05-28T11:58